Let's bring in Danny Alon, Israeli
diplomat. Good to see you this evening.
You heard what Tom Fletcher had to say
uh just then. UK Foreign Secretary David
Lammy, he's described this declaration
of famine in Gaza City as utterly
horrifying. Also accusing the Israeli
government of causing a man-made
catastrophe. What's your response?
I'll tell you Jonathan I I have some
difficulties to uh sympathize with this
dramatic cause uh for two reasons. First
we have not seen this dramatic cause
when we had much worse famine whether it
was in Sudan or in Syria or anywhere
else here when it comes to uh Hamas or
the Palestinians we see the whole world
coming and pouncing on Israel. Now I do
not deny that the situation in Gaza is
very severe. Also it is has to be noted
that uh uh the responsible for this uh
situation is Hamas and I don't want to
recall again the 7th of October and
everything that since happened then but
there is also some objective I would say
um characteristic that has been missing
here because all those reports coming
out of out of Gaza we do not see those
people in Gaza itself. So what do they
do? They rely on Hamas information. And
we know that Hamas information is at
fault, if not downright
a lie. And um and this is why Israel
came out with a uh counter report which
shows quite a different situation. Now
this is not to say Jonathan that uh you
know we look very uh carelessly or
callously at what's happening in Gaza.
We really feel for the people of Gaza
but we also feel for our own protection
and this is why I think the
responsibility is for Hamas and this is
why we very much like to see an end of
it and the end of Hamas regime in Gaza.
Um, so the IPC did declare a famine in
Somalia in 2011, South Sudan in 2017,
again in 2020, and in Sudan in 2024.
So all those famines that were announced
by the IPC were correct. But this
announcement by the IPC that there's
famine in Gaza is incorrect. Is that
what you're saying?
First of all, they may have declared it,
but not they did not make out such a cry
around the world as they did now. I
heard the Mr. Fletcher and uh you know
he he seems like you know it's just hell
on earth and it's not quite that. And uh
and in Sud in Somalia and Sudan there
were professional people there. They
checked them. It's not the case in Gaza
where they rely on Hamas, which is a
very interested party. And also, I would
beg everyone to look at the pictures
from Sudan and Somalia with all those
babies, you know, with blown up uh uh
bellies. You do not see this in in Gaza.
And those in Gaza who have died did not
necessarily die of famine because they
had prioritition.
>> Let me just put a couple of things to
you. The IPC has asked Israel to allow
better surveys since December 2023, but
Israel isn't allowing full humanitarian
data collection. Independent journalists
aren't allowed in to Gaza either to
witness it with our own eyes. But what
we can do is speak to people who are in
Gaza. People like Tess Ingram from
UNICEF. She says it's the worst case of
famine she's ever seen. She's met a
little girl called No, born healthy at 4
kg. Now at 14 months, weighs just 5 kg,
half of what she would weigh. These are
people who are witnessing on a daily
basis what is going on in Israel because
the Israeli government won't allow
independent journalists like us to do
that for ourselves.
>> Well, first of all, I do hope that
journalists will be able to go into
Gaza. I can tell you that the Israeli
press also is pushing very much on the
IDF to go into Gaza. Of course, there is
always the issue of uh uh security and
other things. But I hope that this will
be corrected because I believe that once
press international press will be in and
check individual cases and again there
are individual cases which are
horrifying and again and and we all feel
for that but these are peculiar cases
which do not actually represent the
entire
state of uh of what's happening in in
Gaza. And
>> we're hearing thousands We're hearing
thousands of people are malnourished and
not getting the food they need. When
will Israel allow the amount of aid in
that is necessary?
>> Well, if you look at the amount of uh of
food that has been coming into Gaza for
the last 6 weeks, there cannot be famine
because if you take all the uh and and I
have the figures, but it's it's too
much. If you have all the calories per
person that went into Gaza, it's more
than 3,000 calor calories uh per per
capita. So I don't know how can this
famine continue unless the Hamas has an
interest to show uh famine in Gaza and
to put a pressure on on Israel so they
can get their objectives which
unfortunately is to destroy us.
>> Well, Israel imposed an 11week aid
blockade on Gaza until May. Aid
organizations say it's massively underd
delivered aid throughout the war and
still continues to do so. that is why
we're in the situation we're in.
>> Well, again, I I beg to differ because
since May, as you mentioned, Jonathan,
uh the the flow of food has not been
interrupted and there is a massive
massive uh flow inside. Not to mention,
as you show here on your screen, you
know, there are also some uh airdrops
and every country that wants to join in,
of course, Israel is happy to uh
collaborate and indeed we do. So again,
I we nobody is proud of what's happening
in Gaza and we would like to correct the
situation. But to do that, there is only
one solution, which is to do away with
Hamas. If Hamas will leave Gaza, we'll
bring in a a new regime in Gaza, which
the Palestinians will approve.
>> Well, Hamas have put an offer on the
table, haven't they? They've said,
"Let's get 10 hostages out alive. Let's
have a ceasefire. Let's stop the
deaths." Why risk the lives of more
hostages by having this huge potentially
uh lethal ground operation in Gaza City?
>> Well, uh I don't think the this
operation has started yet. So there is
still a chance for Hamas to actually
agree to uh the compromise and to what
the entire let's say negotiators would
like to see. And indeed if you look at
Netanyahu and I do not represent his
government but Netanyahu has has now
changed the position no more a peace
meal but just one package deal where we
get all the hostages out which is also a
matter of life and death for them. So we
get them all out and for that we start
negotiations about the end of the war in
Gaza. No more negotiations about just a
ceasefire, but Centa now is willing to
for the getting our as all our know
hostages that languish there to start
negotiation about a a a complete
armistice and the end of the war in
Gaza.
>> Okay, we are out of time. Danny Ellen,
former Israeli ambassador to the United
States. Thank you.
>> Thank you.